Day 5693: Circle Of Stooges

This is a prime example of why science needs to be better taught in schools... I'm 'Mordred' in the following IRC conversation, and 'Immortal_Elf' is usually known as 'Redbird.' Also, if you're wondering about the elfeating comments at the beginning, it's because of a new character design I'm working on: Mittens, Devourer of Elfkind. He's a gnome whose goal in life is to eat all elves. Here's a picture: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/Scuttlest/Gnome01.jpg. Anyway, onto the show... (I learned how to use LJ Cut!)


now talking in channel #simhoi
Red-Mage-Black (Maniacman2@phrenzy-B9DA7337.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined channel #simhoi
*** 11:28:59 JOIN Red-Mage-Black
Red-Mage-Black: hello?
* Immortal_Elf waves
Mordred: 'Lo.
Mordred: ELF!
Mordred: I shall consume you!
* Mordred eats all elves in the area.
* Immortal_Elf is immortal so cannot be eaten :P
Mordred: You shall live for a thousand years, being slowly digested by my gnommish stomach acids.
Immortal_Elf: nope
Mordred: The second law of thermodynamics forbids immortality.
OmniGambit: ooh
* Red-Mage-Black will destroy you all
OmniGambit: j00 just got pwn...wait...
* Immortal_Elf doesnt follow the law of thermodynamics
OmniGambit: Mord, the first law of NORMAL Earth life forbids elves, so, uhm...
Mordred: Not so.
OmniGambit: I think she's right on this one
Mordred: What specifically forbids the existence of elves?
OmniGambit: the fact tht they don not exist
OmniGambit: and with none in existance on Earth, finding them would probably be difficult
Mordred: So just because they DON'T exist, they CAN'T exist?
OmniGambit: You CAN'T exist!
* Mordred vanishes.
Immortal_Elf: how do you know they can't exist?
Immortal_Elf: or that they don't even?
OmniGambit: well
Mordred: If they do, or can, then they are subject to natural laws.
Mordred: And as such, can be eaten.
OmniGambit: I say they don't exist because...wlel...land based ones don't, anyways
Red-Mage-Black: land based?
Immortal_Elf: Elves are not subject to natural laws if no one knows they exist
Pyro is now known as Pyro|away
Red-Mage-Black: What,m are we all of the sudden gonna find an elven city in the sky?
OmniGambit: ...yes?
Immortal_Elf: we could...or under the sea RMB
OmniGambit: I'm niot good at math questions/
Red-Mage-Black: maybe in ones in our bodies
Mordred: Wait, you're saying they don't follow the laws of nature just because we don't know that they do?
OmniGambit: well...she has a valid point...
* Ishy-Fish goes to get ready for/leave for his dental appt.
OmniGambit: all our laws are based off ourselves
Mordred: No they aren't.
Mordred: What law of nature has anything to do with humans specifically?
Immortal_Elf: they woudl be considered supernatural..hence..they cannot follow the 'true' laws of nature
OmniGambit: therefore, introduce a new type of lifeform we have yet to learn about, and variables appear
Mordred: If it exists in four dimensions, then there's nothing supernatural about it.
Mordred: Any apparent violations of existing theories would either be explained by alternate methods, or the theories would be remade.
Immortal_Elf: ok..so explain witches and their abilities if they aren't considered supernatural in your thoughts
Mordred: They have no abilities.
Mordred: That's my explanation.
OmniGambit: all I'm sayign is, we know not how na elf, for lack of a better term, "works", and consequently, to say any of our existing theories works on them is speculation at best
OmniGambit: ...
OmniGambit: uhm...
Mordred: Uhm?
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OmniGambit: you have apparently NEVER met a witch then...
Immortal_Elf: apparently...
OmniGambit: I have
Mordred: Are you saying that your rituals can directly affect your physical surroundings?
Immortal_Elf: you all talk to one on a daily basis
OmniGambit: Literally, HALF my female friends are witches
Mordred: I know you're a Wiccan, Redbird.
OmniGambit: not even includign you, Red
Immortal_Elf: IM A WITCH NOT WICCAN...
Mordred: My mistake.
OmniGambit: theres a difference, Mord :.:
Immortal_Elf: how many times do I have to stress that?
Mordred: I've never heard it stressed.
Immortal_Elf: do NOT assume just because someone is a witch that they are wiccan
OmniGambit: and anyways, I HAVE been freaked out because they CAN do stuffl ike that
Mordred: What have you personally witnessed them to do, Omni?
Immortal_Elf: I can do many things Mordred
-: *Immortal_Elf* What's the difference?
Mordred: Such as?
Immortal_Elf: I've made someone hit a rollerrink wall without even being there
Mordred: You +made+ them do it?
OmniGambit: Mord, I pissed one off one day and she got revenge on me
OmniGambit: you explain the fact that I lost half my hair
OmniGambit: THEN tell me they can't do that
Mordred: How did you lose half your hair?
Immortal_Elf: yes. I wished something to happen to this one person and he got 7 stitches that night...when he has NEVER fallen or hit a wall in his entire rollerskating life *at the time*
Mordred: Did you just wake up one morning sans hair?
OmniGambit: well
OmniGambit: the hair had fallen out
OmniGambit: do you know how freaky it is to get upo and look at your pillow and see a bunch of hair on it?
Mordred: Fallen out?
Mordred: Did you see a doctor about your liver functions?
OmniGambit: ...
Mordred: Liver failure can result in hair loss. Excess stress can result in hair loss.
OmniGambit: Mord, I was fine, anbd yes, I DID go to a dacter and had a bunch of tests run, and I was 100% fine
OmniGambit: they have no clue what happened
Immortal_Elf: ...ok. So Mordred is a non-believer. Thats his life and his belief.
OmniGambit: then I found out she wanted revenge
Mordred: There were no somatic symptoms associated with the hair loss?
OmniGambit: no
Mordred: Alright.
Mordred: Well, let's perform an experiment.
Mordred: Omni, tell your friends. And Red, you listen too:
Mordred: There is a black Magnavox stereo on the desk next to me.
Red-Mage-Black: anyone who does not believe in the church will lose their hair!!!!
OmniGambit: :.:
OmniGambit: ...
Mordred: I want the tape deck to fail.
OmniGambit: \Mord, one, they are not here
OmniGambit: two, they do not know you
Mordred: Contact them.
Immortal_Elf: ....
Immortal_Elf: OG has a point.
Immortal_Elf: I do not know you..i've never been in your house..i've never seen this item
OmniGambit: and three, your basically telling them to do it because YOU wanna witness it
Mordred: I can find a picture online of the stereo.
Red-Mage-Black: I'll take the stereo
OmniGambit: Mord
Immortal_Elf: that still isnt going to help
Red-Mage-Black: You won't get the tape ddeck
Mordred: Yes, Omni, I'm telling them to do it because I want to witness it.
OmniGambit: they actually have to KNOW someone to do anything and to have SEEN the place to do anything, If I'm correct
* Ishy-Fish suggests things get a little more mellow up in here.
Ishy-Fish: Mordred, quit instigating.
Immortal_Elf: the guy I hurt..was my ex boyfriend and I went to that skating rink for 3 years
Mordred: I'm mellow. I'm also a firm believer in the scientific method.
* Immortal_Elf is completely mellow
Red-Mage-Black: Scientific
Immortal_Elf: ....I am also a scientist. What's your point?
Red-Mage-Black: Scientific Method, case and point?
OmniGambit: I too am a scientist, and a taoist, and I STILL believe in this one
Mordred: Are all your powers associated with actions on the human body?
OmniGambit: both CAN exist
Immortal_Elf: no..i can affect items too
Mordred: Or can you levitate objects or otherwise work your will on your surroundinge?
Immortal_Elf: not everyone has the same abilities Mordred
Immortal_Elf: everyone is different.
Immortal_Elf: Im also very empathic
Red-Mage-Black: Isn't scientific method, hypothesis and conclusion?
Immortal_Elf: when people are upset..on tv..in the same room..in a book..I cry....etc...etc
Mordred: Can you work your will on your surroundings?
Immortal_Elf: what exactly do you mean?
OmniGambit: ...Mord...
Immortal_Elf: OG..let me handle this please
Mordred: Levitation. Turning on electronics.
Mordred: That sort of thing.
OmniGambit: I think asking someone to explain something liek that is a little...well, for lack of a better term, pointless
OmniGambit: okay, fine...
Immortal_Elf: I just pointed out that NOT everyone can do all that stuff.
Red-Mage-Black: you wouldn't turn on a tv with levitation
Red-Mage-Black: it would be PK
Mordred: I've heard it said that some witches can light candles by thinking about it.
Red-Mage-Black: *snicker*
Immortal_Elf: i can however affect electronics when Im extremely pissed off
Mordred: Affect in what way?
Red-Mage-Black: I can effect my radio
* Ishy-Fish heads off to get his teeth cleaned.
Immortal_Elf: make them short out...
OmniGambit: bye Ishy
Mordred: Short out?
Immortal_Elf: yea
Ishy-Fish: Later.
Mordred: Do you actually damage the components, or just turn it off?
Mordred: Bye Ishy.
Immortal_Elf: as in..go all static like..
Red-Mage-Black: I can make my radio static
Mordred: So the frequency is effected.
Immortal_Elf: more or less yea.
Immortal_Elf: i've caused it to rain before
Red-Mage-Black: i can be mad, then eithr the radio statics or it turns up
OmniGambit: 0.0
OmniGambit: RAIN?!?
Red-Mage-Black: kinda cool
Immortal_Elf: yes..
Mordred: What was the weather before it started raining?
Immortal_Elf: completely clear
Immortal_Elf: and no rain in the forcast.
Mordred: Wind?
Immortal_Elf: I can smell when rain is coming..even though its HOURS away
Immortal_Elf: none
Mordred: I see.
Mordred: How did you feel when you caused it to rain?
Red-Mage-Black: Ican tell just by going outside
Red-Mage-Black: even when its a few hours away
Immortal_Elf: completely and utterly pissed off
Mordred: I see.
Mordred: So most of the occasions on which you've affected the outside world corresponded to strong emotion.
Immortal_Elf: more or less yes.
Immortal_Elf: so?
Mordred: Have your feelings of happiness ever caused physical changes in the surrounding environment?
Red-Mage-Black: sometimes when I feel I need rain, I get rain.
Immortal_Elf: yea..its made it sunny
Immortal_Elf: another questions?
Red-Mage-Black: strong emotions effect the the weather?
Immortal_Elf: you can ask all the questions you want...
Immortal_Elf: if they did..it would be storming all the time.
Immortal_Elf: hurricanes/tornadoes/etc..would happen on a daily bloody basis..
Pyro|away is now known as Pyro|
Mordred: In Florida, it seems that lots of witches dwell, then.
Immortal_Elf: .....
OmniGambit: ...
* OmniGambit coughs, extremely loudly
Immortal_Elf: hurricanes happen during a particular season mr "scientist"
Mordred: I'm well aware of that. ;)
Immortal_Elf: then dont try to explain this away because you dont believe in witches
Immortal_Elf: do you believe in God?
Mordred: Yes.
Red-Mage-Black: don't go talking like you know about witches
Mordred: However, I don't claim that I can affect physical surroundings based on my beliefs.
Immortal_Elf: then you believe in the supernatural...unless you've seen Him..
Mordred: Nobody's seen Him for nearly 2000 years.
Immortal_Elf: then dont tell me there is no such thing as witches or witchcraft...
Mordred: Why not?
Red-Mage-Black: its called the pagan religion
Mordred: Even if I were to say that, I would base my conclusions on controlled experiments.
Cai: Justice needs to be fed.
Mordred: Not on personal opinion.
OmniGambit: ...
Immortal_Elf: ...people have SEEn what I can do...
Immortal_Elf: i dont just 'CLAIM' it
Red-Mage-Black: what state/country do you live in?
OmniGambit: you know, #simhoi seems like its taking a bit too large of a tangent at this point and it could soon get into problematic conversations, so if we could just detour to a different subject...
Mordred: Illinois, USA.
Red-Mage-Black: hmmmm
Immortal_Elf: what? under a rock?
Mordred: Des Plaines. Northwest suburbs of Chi-town.
Red-Mage-Black: A storm CAN effect two or three different states
Red-Mage-Black: nevermind
Cai: So Chi-town here we are again...
OmniGambit: ...apparently, asking nicely doesn't work...
Immortal_Elf: he's not gonna listen RMB..so there isnt any sense.
Cai: Mordred.
Red-Mage-Black: DIFFERENT SUBJECT!
Mordred: If you'd like any of these witnesses to send me a written statement, or video evidence, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Mordred: I'm done now.
Immortal_Elf: he's a typical 'scientist' who cant see past the end of his nose
Immortal_Elf: ....
Cai: Please tell me you were at the Hallucino Genetics DVD show.
Immortal_Elf: what are you? a cop?
OmniGambit: ...
Cai: The one in Chi Town
Mordred: No, I'm a believer in science.
Red-Mage-Black: I CALL A SUBJECT CHANGE!!!
OmniGambit: uhm, yelling doesn't work either
Red-Mage-Black: I like pie!
OmniGambit: perhaps if we all just stay quiet, the room will implode and the debate shall cease
Immortal_Elf: .....I believe in science as well..but you dont see me telling others that they dont exist just because I dont believe it
Immortal_Elf: I dont believe in God....but Im not gonna tell people to prove it
Mordred: I say it doesn't exist because I have no proof.
Mordred: Provide me with proof and I will believe.
Mordred: Simple as that..
Immortal_Elf: like I said...you're too close minded to believe
Mordred: Your statements can be corroborated by observable experiments.
Immortal_Elf: yet you believe there is a man in the sky that makes rules for you to abide by
Mordred: Therefore, they are subject to inquiry.
OmniGambit: okay, see, I KNEW this would eventually get to religion
Mordred: It's like if I claimed I could turn into an elephant.
OmniGambit: Okay, for the love of God, STOP!
OmniGambit: NO God damned good can come from this!
Mordred: If I couldn't provide a video, but insisted that you were closedminded for disbelieving me, what would you think?
OmniGambit: So freaking cease and desist before a REAL argument breaks out nad this devolves into flaming
Immortal_Elf: OG...for one..stop your cursing...for 2...stop yelling
Immortal_Elf: you are NOT admin..
Pyro| is now known as Pyro
Cai is now known as Cai|Crusades
Immortal_Elf: but see..im NOT closeminded.
OmniGambit: noi, I'm not
Mordred: I promise now I will not use derogatory language of any sort in this discussion.
OmniGambit: but now, this is getting into religion
OmniGambit: and past religion, flames are ALWAYS just around the corener
Mordred: What's wrong with the open expression of conflicting viewpoints?
OmniGambit: and I see no reason for you guys to argue
Immortal_Elf: If you want to believe that a man exists yet you cant believe in other supernatural things..then i feel sorry for you..however Im not going to tell you it doesnt exist.
Mordred: Right.
Immortal_Elf: OG...Im a TAD bit more mature then that..so SHUT UP
Immortal_Elf: yet..you're telling me that I dont exist
OmniGambit: ...
Mordred: You say you can affect your surroundings via your powers.
Mordred: You provide no proof besides your own testimony.
OmniGambit: you know what? Fine, whatever, you guys wanna ruin everyone else's time here over a stupid argument? Go ahead, who gives a shit anymore.
Mordred: If you provided the deposition of a witness or a videotape, that would be proof.
OmniGambit is now known as Omni|PissedOff
Red-Mage-Black: he's not saying powers Mordred
Red-Mage-Black: he's saying he can effect the weather through "emotions
Immortal_Elf: SHE...RMB ..SHE
Mordred: Powers, emotions, what have you.
Red-Mage-Black: sorry
Immortal_Elf: oh..so now I dont have emotions either??
Mordred: No.
Mordred: I'm saying you haven't proven your emotions can affect your surroundings.
Mordred: You can prove it, though, with a videotape or eyewitness testimony.
Mordred: I'm perfectly amenable to the idea that you have the ability to affect your physical surroundings via your emotional state. All I ask for is proof.
Immortal_Elf: ok so explain how I know when something has happened to people close to me....explain how I know its gonna rain before anyone else and the weather channel says its not gonna rain?
Mordred: I can't explain it until I have evidence more specific than that.
Immortal_Elf: so explain why you believe in God/
Mordred: My belief in God has no observable effects on the world.
Immortal_Elf: yes it does
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Immortal_Elf: you believe in someoen who NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN
Mordred: Do I say that the power of God allows me to float through the air?
Immortal_Elf: Immortal_Elf: you believe in someoen who NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN
Immortal_Elf: Mordred: Do I say that the power of God allows me to float through the air?
Immortal_Elf: bah..
Mordred: I say that the power of God brings me squat in this world.
Mordred: Therefore, I have nothing to prove.
Immortal_Elf: but you believe in him because someone has TOLD you he exists?
Immortal_Elf: yes you do.
Mordred: Yes.
Immortal_Elf: you tell me I have to prove what I can or cannot do..yet you believe in a man no one has ever seen.
Mordred: But they don't claim to be able to fly via His power either.
Mordred: You fail to grasp my point.
Immortal_Elf: i never said I could fly Mordred
Immortal_Elf: no..you're going in circles contradicting yourself.
Mordred: You claim to be able to affect weather thanks to your emotions.
Mordred: Correct?
Immortal_Elf: because I have...
Mordred: Right.
Mordred: Let's assume you have satisfactorily proved this point beyond doubt.
Immortal_Elf: i see you havent tried to make me prove what else I've said..you just seem stuck on that one thing...
Immortal_Elf: do you believe Jesus performed miracles?
Mordred: So, I come along and say I can affect weather by praying to God.
Immortal_Elf: and I wold say..Cool.
Immortal_Elf: because Im no closeminded
Mordred: I would have to provide proof of this, however. Right?
Immortal_Elf: and I dont 'need' proof
Mordred: You don't need proof?
Immortal_Elf: no..I dont.
Immortal_Elf: because I am not close-minded.
Mordred: You'd take my word on it that I could change weather through prayer.
Immortal_Elf: I've seen enough crap in this world to NOT believe you can do it.
Mordred: It's an easy thing to prove or disprove, but you wouldn't ask for proof?
Butterfly: it's impossible to prove or disprove, actually
Immortal_Elf: how is it easy to prove?
Mordred: It is easy to prove.
Immortal_Elf: thank you Butterfly
Immortal_Elf: really..how?
Mordred: If I pray and the weather changes, it is proven.
Butterfly: no
Mordred: If I pray and the weather does not change, it is discounted.
Mordred: No?
Immortal_Elf: and you havent answered my question about Jesus performing miracles
Butterfly: weather is like, the world's BIGGEST uncontrolled variable
Immortal_Elf: thank you Butterfly
Mordred: So you're saying that neither of our claims can be substantiated?
Butterfly: you cannot base experiments on the weather and claim conclusive evidence
Butterfly: that's what I'm saying
Butterfly: in science, nothing is ever absolute
Mordred: So, you're saying no one can predict the weather? Not even the Weather Channel?
Mordred: And in science, yes, there are absolutes.
Butterfly: yes
Mordred: Planck's constant is absolute.
Butterfly: for now.
Mordred: Avogadro's number is constant.
Butterfly: it used to be absolute that the world was flat.
Immortal_Elf: the weather channel is wrong more times then it is right..
Butterfly: it used to be absolute that you could cure the plague by piercing your liver
Butterfly: it used to be absolute that if someone had a unibrow, they were a werewolf
Immortal_Elf: Mordred? YOu planning on answer me? or are you going to ignore it because if you answered yes, you'd have to believe in what I can do.
Mordred: About Jesus?
Red-Mage-Black has quit channel (Exit:)
* Butterfly goes back to his game
Immortal_Elf: yes
Mordred: I have no reliable evidence. I can form no definite conclusion.
Immortal_Elf: yet you BELIEVE in him?
Mordred: Yes.
Immortal_Elf: that makes NO sense whatsoever
Mordred: Correct.
Mordred: It's a curious form of doublethink that forces me to apply the scientific method to everything but my religion.
Immortal_Elf: which is completely hypocritical
Mordred: Correct.
* Immortal_Elf rolls her eyes.
Immortal_Elf: Just as I figured.
Mordred: Is it possible for me to demonstrate Jesus doing miracles?
Immortal_Elf: no one is asking you too
Mordred: Is it possible for you to change the weather?
Immortal_Elf: but you have faith that he exists, yet you dont have faith that others can do it
Immortal_Elf: anything is possible Mordred
Mordred: Listen. I'm saying that you can prove your claims with evidence.
Mordred: Don't want to use weather? Fine. How about the radio?
Immortal_Elf: i've had plenty of witnesses
Mordred: Then have one write a testimony and email it to me.
Immortal_Elf: i can have my gf log on here and tell you if you'd like..and she's a bloody MORMON
Mordred: Please do so.
Immortal_Elf: you have MSN?
Mordred: Unfortunately no.
Mordred: Do you have AIM?
Immortal_Elf: yes
Immortal_Elf: o0Rumiko0o
Mordred: Scuttlest.
Immortal_Elf: give her a few minutes to get it
Mordred: Aye aye.


Here's how I see this conversation:
#1) Redbird claims she can affect the weather with her emotions.
#2) I ask for proof.
#3) She attacks my beliefs, accuses me of being 'narrowminded,' and insists that 'anything is possible.'

She got hung up on Jesus and miracles halfway through, even though there was no reason to. I did not at any point claim that Jesus did perform miracles, because I know I cannot prove it. She claimed she could change the weather, therefore the burden of proof was on her. What part of this is so difficult to understand? It's the SCIENTIFIC-FUCKING-METHOD! You don't start from the assumption that your emotions change the weather, you start from the observation that the weather changes when you're feeling strongly. You accumulate observations, and then build a theory that accounts for the observed phenomena! It goes cause, THEN effect.

Sheesh.